I recently had the opportunity to interview Wayne Larden, CEO of Pont3 and Race Director of the TCS Sydney Marathon – the newest Abbott World Marathon Major – for our latest episode of The Future of Running.
Wayne has spent more than 20 years building this race, taking it from a struggling event in 2005 to one of the most in-demand marathons in the world today.
What stood out to me most wasn’t just the growth.
It was how deliberately they grew.
Here are the 10 lessons that stuck with me most from our conversation.
1) Don’t sell a race. Sell a week-long trip and a lifelong memory.
Wayne doesn’t think of Sydney as a four-hour event.
For him, the experience starts when runners step off the plane and ends when they leave the country.
The goal is simple: people should go home saying,
“That was the best marathon trip we’ve ever taken.”
The race is the anchor.
The trip is the experience.
The memory is the brand.
Takeaway: The marathon is the anchor product — the trip is the profit center, and the memory is the brand.
2) Experience comes before scale.
Sydney could grow much faster. Wayne said they could jump to 55,000 runners today.
They won’t.
Because, as he put it, “You only have to get it wrong once.”
They’re protecting NPS, reputation, and trust first — and letting growth follow.
Takeaway: Scale is a lagging indicator. Experience is the leading indicator.
3) Treat the city like a shareholder.
Wayne was very clear about this: road closures are only tolerated when the community sees real value.
When 1,000 runners close roads, people complain.
When 50,000 runners bring pride, energy, and economic impact, people support it.
Your stakeholders aren’t just runners.
They’re residents, businesses, politicians, and landowners.
Takeaway: If you don’t manage externalities, the city will manage you.
4) Government trust is built the same way a brand is built: slowly.
A huge part of Sydney’s success came from long-term relationships with government and tourism.
Wayne’s approach was simple: listen, be flexible, deliver consistently.
Over time, that built institutional trust — and that trust became a moat.
Takeaway: Economic impact gets you a meeting. Trust gets you a decade.
5) Sometimes growth is about positioning, not marketing.
Early on, Sydney learned something simple but powerful.
People weren’t entering because it was called the “Sydney Marathon.”
If they didn’t see themselves as marathoners, they didn’t even look at the event.
So they changed it to the Sydney Running Festival.
Participation grew.
They widened the funnel first.
Then they grew the marathon later.
Takeaway: Sometimes growth isn’t marketing — it’s changing the category people think you’re in.
6) Run clubs are not a tactic. They’re distribution.
Post-COVID, everything changed.
Running became social. Run clubs exploded. New runners came in through community, not competition.
Wayne sees run clubs as the front door to the sport — the lowest-friction way to become a runner.
Lower intimidation.
Higher belonging.
Stronger retention.
Takeaway: Run clubs aren’t a tactic. They’re distribution.
7) Inclusion only works when you build infrastructure for it.
One of my favorite stories was about Jasmine, a Muslim runner who felt welcomed — but didn’t see anyone like herself.
With support, she created the Sydney Muslim Run Club.
Sydney also invests in coach accreditation and First Nations programs.
This isn’t branding.
It’s systems, leaders, and pathways.
Takeaway: Belonging is engineered. It doesn’t happen by accident.
8) High standards force you to become a better organization.
The journey to becoming a Major forced Sydney to raise everything:
Operations.
Government coordination.
Elite athlete investment.
Spectator experience.
Delivery discipline.
External standards became a forcing function.
Takeaway: The right standard turns ambition into operating discipline.
9) Spectators are part of the product — and they need to be designed into the experience.
Wayne made a great point: spectators aren’t observers.
They’re part of the marathon.
Sydney invests in big screens, live sites, and keeping people engaged long after the elites pass.
That energy improves both sides: runners and fans.
Takeaway: A marathon without spectators is something you run. With spectators, it’s something you feel.
10) The next growth frontier is storytelling.
The biggest watchability problem in running isn’t distance.
It’s identity.
Most people don’t know the athletes.
They don’t follow rivalries.
They don’t know the stories.
Wayne believes the future is about making runners recognizable – building characters, narratives, and connection.
Takeaway: Attention follows narrative. Narrative follows characters. Build the characters.
Final Thought
What struck me most about Wayne is how patient this has all been.
- 18 years to go from 1,200 to 5,000 marathoners
- Then three years to reach 30,000+
- Two decades of steady improvement
No shortcuts.
No hype.
Just consistent execution.
That’s how you build something that lasts.
The Future of Running on Head Start is a new mini-series presented by Laurel, exploring where the sport is headed. Listen to my full interview with Wayne Larden here. I have included a full transcript of our conversation, edited for readability, below.
Phil Dumontet:
Welcome back to The Future of Running. Happy 2026.
I’m excited to be here with Wayne Larden, CEO of the TCS Sydney Marathon — the seventh Abbott World Marathon Major.
Wayne has experienced running from every angle: elite athlete, injured runner, parent, operator — and is now stewarding one of the world’s great city marathons.
Today is far more than a conversation about how Sydney became a Major, though we’ll discuss that. It’s about culture, performance, responsibility, and legacy — and what running must become if it’s going to matter for the next 50 years.
Wayne, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.
Wayne Larden:
Yeah, nice to be here, Phil. Thanks for having me on.
Phil Dumontet:
I’m going to dive right in, Wayne.
I’ve heard you say that you want the Sydney Marathon to be the most fun marathon in the world. You’ve said you don’t care about being the biggest, only the most fun.
Everyone talks about the course, the skyline, and how beautiful Sydney is. But what do you think actually makes a marathon fun?
Wayne Larden:
When I say we want Sydney to be the most fun, we’re not just talking about race day.
Of course race day is important, but what we really want to make sure is that we’re connecting with our runners from the time they step off the plane, right throughout their journey to the start line, through the course, after the finish line, and until they leave Sydney.
It’s a multifaceted approach where the engagement off the field of play is just as important as what we deliver on the field of play — and how we engage the non-running Sydney community to get behind the event.
That’s probably the biggest difference between us as the newest Abbott World Marathon Major and the other six.
What we want people to have is far more than a race experience. We want them to have a cultural experience — a city experience.
We want people who take the time and spend hard-earned money to come to Sydney to really enjoy themselves well beyond the run. To meet the locals. To understand where the best places are to go, what the locals do, and to have their experience curated so they get the absolute most out of their time here.
It’s about showing off our beautiful city and country — our beautiful course, our harbour, our people, our restaurants, our coffee culture, our pubs, the Blue Mountains, the Hunter Valley, the south coast, the north coast.
We want them to go home with an incredible memory of their experience in Sydney and tell all their friends about it.
That’s what we mean when we say we want Sydney to be the most fun Abbott World Marathon Major.
Phil Dumontet:
One hundred percent. And I’ll share with you offline — Sydney is such an amazing city. I have some of my best memories from there.
I’ve got to ask you, as Event Director of the TCS Sydney Marathon, you mentioned some of your favorite spots. Let’s say you fly in, you run the race, you finish — where does Wayne Larden go after the race?
Wayne Larden:
Where do I go, and where do I recommend everyone else go?
I’d probably go straight to a rooftop pub overlooking the harbour and have a couple of cold ones to relax first.
In fact, we have a partnership with Maryvale, and the Ivy Pool Bar is our official after-party location. They turn the rooftop pool into an ice bath for runners. You show your medal and get a free beer.
I’d probably start there.
Then there are so many other things to do — great restaurants, Bondi or Manly, just chilling by the beach, having some nice food, looking over the water, relaxing, and enjoying the post-race moment.
Just celebrating the joy, the triumph, and having a good time.
Phil Dumontet:
Celebrate the moment and the accomplishment. You heard it here from Wayne first.
Fast forward five years. People say, “Sydney is the most fun marathon in the world because…”
What do you want them to finish that sentence with, and why?
Wayne Larden:
I’d love to hear them say, “That was the best marathon trip we’ve ever taken.”
It was great from start to finish. There were activities throughout the week. It was easy. We were welcomed. We met the locals. We had a great time.
Aussies love a chat. If you’re traveling to Sydney, don’t be scared to say g’day to anyone — you’ll get a conversation guaranteed.
We want people to remember meeting the locals, feeling welcomed into a foreign city, and having a great marathon experience.
Of course, we also want to be one of the best marathons, not just the funnest. Fun is even better when the event itself is excellent.
But mainly we want them to say: “It was the best marathon trip we’ve ever had.”
And we want them to come back and tell everyone to run the TCS Sydney Marathon.
Phil Dumontet:
I’d like to take a step back, Wayne.
I know running really changed the trajectory of your life growing up in Mount Druitt. You’ve said that running showed you what life could offer.
I’d love for you to share a little more about how those early experiences shaped who you are today and your perspective on running.
Wayne Larden:
Running has been a significant part of my life since I was about 12 years old.
I grew up in Western Sydney, in a place called Mount Druitt, which is a collection of about eight suburbs. It was mostly what we call housing commission — public housing — so there were a lot of low socio-economic families living in one area.
People moved out there and had kids at the same time, so there were a lot of young people all growing up together. There wasn’t a lot to do except sport, or you could get yourself into trouble.
When I was young, I was reasonably good at sport. But there were a lot of difficult things happening around us — violence, domestic issues — and it was frightening for a young kid.
I started to go a little bit wayward. Nothing too crazy, but I did.
One of my school teachers pulled me into line, as teachers could do back then, and gave me a good talking to. He suggested I focus more on my sport.
I had a lot of anger in me as a child, and I focused that into running and training and wanting to be the best. I hated being beaten. I had a fear of failure that drove me to train really hard.
I started to get better at running and experience success — winning races and making teams.
From where I grew up, all I knew was Mount Druitt. That was my whole world.
Being able to travel, meet people from outside my area, make state teams and national teams — that opened my eyes to opportunities I didn’t know existed.
I got to go places I never would have dreamed of going. I met like-minded people, supportive families, and experienced a different way of life.
That really drove me to want to succeed even more.
Wayne Larden:
As I grew into adulthood, I started to feel I had an obligation to give back to the sport that helped shape my life.
One of the first things I did when I took over the Sydney Marathon in 2005 was add a 5K family fun run.
At that time, the only other big fun run in Sydney was the Sydney City to Surf, which was 14 kilometers of hills — not something kids could really do.
I wanted an event that embraced the community from cradle to grave.
I wanted toddlers in prams to experience the joy of running, get their first medal, and grow up knowing that running and events are a normal part of life — and that they’re actually fun.
That family run has remained ever since.
The half marathon has gone because we needed space for the marathon, and the structure of the event has changed, but the family run — now called the Mini Marathon — will remain forever.
I’m really proud of that.
There’s still a pathway for kids, for mums and dads, for teenagers, and hopefully when those kids grow up and have their own children, they’ll remember the joy of getting their first medal and bring their kids back.
You get this cycle going.
That’s one example of how I’ve tried to put back into the sport and the community that supported and nurtured me so well.
Phil Dumontet:
Thank you for sharing that, Wayne.
Just to give some context to the audience — you launched that family run in 2005, over 20 years ago, well before this became common around the world.
You said something I love: running gave so much to me, and I feel an obligation to give back to the sport that nurtured me.
I think so many of us have that relationship with running.
Phil Dumontet:
For someone listening who’s never been to Sydney, what is the running culture like day to day?
Phil Dumontet:
For someone listening who has never been to Sydney, give us a peek under the hood.
What is the running culture like day to day in Sydney?
Wayne Larden:
It’s changed a lot since COVID, as it has around the world.
Before COVID, the marathon running scene in Australia was very different from most other places. We didn’t really have a strong marathon culture.
The biggest marathon in Australia pre-COVID was Melbourne, with about 7,000 runners. Gold Coast had about 6,000. Sydney was struggling between 4,500 and 5,000 at best.
But we had runners.
We had 14,000 to 16,000 people in the half marathons, 20,000 in the 10Ks. There were runners, but there wasn’t a culture of people running marathons.
That was one of our biggest challenges when we applied for candidacy — hitting the minimum finisher numbers. We thought that would be our hardest hurdle.
Wayne Larden:
Post-COVID, everything changed.
New runners came into the sport. People who used to go to the gym started running from home. They fell in love with the sport that we’ve known has been amazing for a long time.
Then you saw the emergence of run clubs.
Running shifted from training for something into a social activity, with fitness as part of that — and running as the core.
The way people interact now is completely different to what we had before COVID.
You have younger runners, great marketing, great community engagement. They go for a run, then have a coffee or a beer. That has brought many more people into the sport.
Wayne Larden:
Now in Sydney there are literally hundreds of run clubs.
Morning, evening, weekends — they’re everywhere.
You can fly into Sydney and join a run club any day of the week. You can run in Bondi one day, through the CBD another day, Manly Beach the next.
You can do a sightseeing tour of Sydney just by joining different run clubs.
The running culture now would rival any city in the world.
Along the Northern Beaches where I live, through the city on weekday mornings, in Centennial Park, Bondi, the eastern suburbs — there are thousands of people out running.
It’s completely changed.
Wayne Larden:
Our main demographic used to be 40 to 55. That’s dropped significantly.
Now we have much younger runners coming into the sport earlier. They’re getting healthy earlier, being more social, hopefully drinking less, and leading more fulfilled lives.
You will not be bored coming to Sydney as a runner.
You can run anywhere, meet new people, see beautiful sights, and have a great time.
Phil Dumontet:
It’s such a run-friendly city. Such a strong community.
It makes me want to come run with a run club — it sounds like you’d be welcomed immediately.
Phil Dumontet:
I know you mentioned the growth you’ve had — starting with about 1,300 marathoners and now over 123,000 ballot applications, with 35,000 runners and plans to grow further.
So a two-part question:
How big can the Sydney Marathon be?
And as it relates to run clubs, are they a key part of your strategy for growth and participant experience?
Wayne Larden:
Firstly, we have a lot of growth potential and a lot of capacity on our course.
Even on our current road closure timings, we could increase the field significantly right now.
We could jump to 55,000 runners if we wanted to.
But we don’t want to do that too fast.
Wayne Larden:
Going back to that idea of fun — and more importantly, delivering a great experience — we need to make sure we can digest the growth without it impacting participant experience.
We want to grow steadily.
Because you only have to get it wrong once to alienate an audience, and that’s not what we want to do.
Wayne Larden:
A big part of our decision-making process is always asking:
What is the participant going to experience if we do this?
What are the risks?
That guides how we grow and how we implement change on and around the course.
Wayne Larden:
There is capacity to be as big as the other majors.
But that’s not our objective.
Our objective is to grow organically and maintain a great experience for the runners.
We don’t need to be the biggest for the sake of being the biggest.
We want to be the best and the most fun.
Phil Dumontet:
You mentioned run clubs earlier, and I think about them as the front door to the sport.
For a lot of people, running can be intimidating. How do you start? How do you become a runner?
Now it’s: my friends go to this run club, come join us, we’ll grab a beer after.
It removes the intimidation factor entirely.
How do you think about run clubs as part of your growth strategy and your responsibility to preserve the participant experience?
Wayne Larden:
Run clubs are a big part of our community strategy.
We have a strong commitment to making sure running is accessible to anyone in the community — people of different backgrounds, cultures, religions, ages.
Not only accessible, but a place where people feel welcome.
Wayne Larden:
I’ll give you an example.
There’s a lovely lady named Jasmine, a Muslim woman from the western suburbs of Sydney, who fell in love with running and came to one of our Sydney Marathon run clubs.
She was welcomed, but there were no other Muslim women there, and culturally, running wasn’t common in her community.
We supported Jasmine, and she started her own run club — the Sydney Muslim Run Club.
Wayne Larden:
We have a run club partner program where we pay for run club leaders to get coaching accreditation.
That way they’re not just leading a group for a run — they actually know what they’re doing and can give good advice.
We’re supporting education across the community.
Wayne Larden:
That run club has grown incredibly.
It’s an example of how you can facilitate accessibility across cultural groups.
Each run club attracts a different audience, and that’s the beauty of the run club culture now — it’s diverse.
People can find a place where they feel comfortable.
Wayne Larden:
Through our We Run Foundation, we invest in the community.
We encourage run clubs to educate new runners about the values of running, the ethics, finding your reason to run, and running with purpose.
What people don’t always realise is that when you commit to something positive — when you become fitter, healthier, happier — that has a ripple effect on the people around you.
You motivate others. You help change lives.
Wayne Larden:
That snowballs.
The running community grows.
That’s good for community health, wellbeing, social connection, and connected communities.
And of course, the event industry benefits — but the deeper purpose is community happiness and accessibility.
Phil Dumontet:
I really appreciate that story about Jasmine.
She felt welcomed, then went out and created her own community.
That’s how healthy communities grow.
Wayne Larden:
We also focus a lot on First Nations culture in Australia.
We have a First Nations strategy, and we want to make sure that First Nations communities have opportunities to run, that we inspire kids to run, and that we help people become healthier, fitter, happier, and more connected.
That’s another really important part of our community strategy, and we spend a lot of time and money on that.
Phil Dumontet:
I appreciate you sharing that, Wayne.
And the We Run Foundation fits into that as well.
Wayne Larden:
Yeah.
Phil Dumontet:
Of course, you’re now the seventh Abbott World Marathon Major — the newest Major.
What does that really mean on the ground, not just on paper?
Wayne Larden:
I think it’s incredibly exciting.
When we were first named a candidate race, there was some interstate rivalry in Australia. Other races thought it should be them.
But there was also a lot of pride and support from the Australian running community for Australia to be part of the Abbott World Marathon Majors.
Wayne Larden:
Australians are proud people, and they wanted to support Sydney to stand on the world stage.
A lot of runners put their marathon shoes back on to support Sydney and help get it into the Majors.
That early growth wasn’t just new runners out of COVID — it was experienced runners coming back to support the candidacy.
Wayne Larden:
Since becoming a Major, the growth in participation and ballot applications has been incredible.
And it’s not just international runners.
We now have tens of thousands more Australians applying to run Sydney because we’re an Abbott World Marathon Major.
Wayne Larden:
It’s inspired people to step up to the marathon who wouldn’t have before.
It’s created a focal point for marathon running in Australia.
Other events are growing as stepping stones to Sydney or as alternatives if people don’t get in.
Wayne Larden:
We’re also seeing a big shift in commercial interest in running.
Before COVID, we mostly had endemic running brands investing in events.
Now we’re seeing non-endemic brands — tech companies, watches, even kitchen appliance companies — investing in running because the audience is big, healthy, positive, and has a strong socio-economic profile.
Wayne Larden:
That investment allows us to do more on the ground to enhance the experience for runners.
Wayne Larden:
We’ve also seen a shift in government support.
We would not have passed the candidacy without the New South Wales government, Destination NSW, and their investment, support, and strategic advice.
All-of-government coordination was critical to getting us into the Majors.
Wayne Larden:
We also made a very deliberate decision to invest in elite athletes.
That’s why we brought Elliot Kipchoge and Sifan Hassan to Sydney.
We wanted our first Abbott World Marathon Major to have impact.
Wayne Larden:
From the moment they stepped off the plane, the media was all over them.
And that was important because we needed to grow spectator numbers.
We needed people in Sydney to know the marathon was on, that the greatest names in the sport were running through their streets.
Wayne Larden:
The difference in spectator numbers between 2024 and 2025 was incredible.
People came out and stood on the sidelines for hours.
That’s new for Sydney, because normally people don’t love road closures unless there’s a reason to be there.
Wayne Larden:
Now the community is starting to embrace the Sydney Marathon in a way they never have before.
And now the global running community has a reason to come to Sydney and run the seventh Abbott World Marathon Major.
Phil Dumontet:
It really is multifaceted.
In 2005, you had about 1,300 marathon finishers.
Now you have over 123,000 ballot applications, the most famous runners in the world, and huge crowds.
That growth story is remarkable.
Phil Dumontet:
What’s the fastest-growing segment you’re seeing at the TCS Sydney Marathon?
Wayne Larden:
The highest demand growth is coming from international runners.
The biggest growth is from North America, then Europe, and Asia to a degree.
The fastest-growing age demographic is 25 to 35.
It’s not the biggest segment yet, but it’s the fastest-growing.
Wayne Larden:
That’s a reflection of the younger runners in run clubs and more local Australian runners.
But the Australian growth overall has been incredible as well.
Phil Dumontet:
I want to take a step back to your running career.
You ran a 2:16 marathon debut in 1995 — your first and only marathon.
How did that experience, and the injuries that followed, shape you as a leader?
Wayne Larden:
I was a decent runner.
That 2:16 at Gold Coast was a good opener. Gold Coast is a great marathon and good friends of ours.
But I was one of those runners who kept getting injured.
Wayne Larden:
With running, long-term success comes from being able to build layers on a foundation.
When you get injured, it’s like knocking the bricks off the top every six months. You’re rebuilding all the time, and you can’t grow to where you maybe could have been.
Wayne Larden:
It took me a while to understand this.
When you’re an elite athlete, you’re very driven and very focused on what you think you should achieve.
It takes time to overcome the disappointment of not reaching what you thought you could reach.
Wayne Larden:
What I eventually realised is that your body is going to let you do what it’s meant to do — and nothing more.
For me, when I got up to 200 to 220 kilometres a week, I started to get injured.
But I needed that mileage to get into marathon shape. That’s why I kept getting injured.
Wayne Larden:
In the end, I realised I actually did the best I could do.
And I became happy with that.
Wayne Larden:
I got to see the world.
I ran in world championships, won an Australian championship, ran a half-decent marathon, and had a great life.
And I shaped my career into something I never would have dreamed of.
This is my absolute dream job. I would never want to change it.
Phil Dumontet:
How do you think that shaped your management style?
Wayne Larden:
I don’t know if it shaped it directly.
But I have a broad background — as an athlete, in sponsorship, operations, marketing — and that gives me a rounded approach to my job.
Wayne Larden:
The drive to succeed, the desire to deliver the best event we can, that definitely comes from running.
I don’t like being beaten.
I like us to be up there with the best.
Wayne Larden:
And you learn from mistakes.
As an athlete, you get beaten, you get setbacks, you learn, and you don’t make the same mistakes again.
That’s one of the mindsets I carry into business.
Phil Dumontet:
That resilience, that commitment to excellence — those are all athlete traits that translate directly into leadership.
Phil Dumontet:
Take us back to 2005.
A lot of race directors listening to this wonder: what do I need to focus on to grow my race, improve its reputation, and attract new runners?
You stepped into Sydney at a time when the marathon was struggling.
What did you walk into, and what did you see as the opportunity?
Wayne Larden:
It was a combination of risks and opportunities.
The Sydney Marathon was the only remaining legacy of the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games, but it wasn’t performing to the expectations of government or Athletics Australia.
There was a real threat that the license to run the event could be pulled.
Closing 50 kilometres of roads in a busy city for 1,000 runners was a problem.
Sydney didn’t have the public transport infrastructure it has today, so road closures had a big impact on motorists and residents.
Wayne Larden:
We had to maintain the support of government and the sport.
That meant we needed to change a few things.
Wayne Larden:
One of the first things we did was relook at the course.
We tried to reduce the impact on the non-running community and reduce negativity from the public and local politicians.
We wanted to shrink the footprint while we rebuilt the event.
Wayne Larden:
At the same time, we realised our biggest assets were the Sydney Harbour Bridge, the harbour, the CBD, and the Opera House finish line.
So we brought all the finishes back to the Opera House area and focused on what made the event special.
Wayne Larden:
When you have 1,000 runners closing roads for six hours, people get frustrated.
But when you have 50,000 runners delivering hundreds of millions of dollars in economic impact, people understand it.
Wayne Larden:
Another key change was adding the family fun run, which we talked about earlier.
But there was another important insight from our research.
Wayne Larden:
We surveyed the running and fun running community and asked why they weren’t entering the Sydney Marathon.
The most common answer was:
“I’m not a marathon runner, so I don’t even look at it.”
Wayne Larden:
Even though we had a half and a 10K, the name “Sydney Marathon” was scaring people away.
There was no marathon culture in Australia at that time.
Wayne Larden:
So we changed the name to the Sydney Running Festival.
We highlighted the beauty of the course and the different events.
Immediately, participation started to grow.
Wayne Larden:
We always planned to change it back to the Sydney Marathon, but it took much longer than we expected.
It took 18 years to grow from 1,200 to 5,000 marathon runners.
Then three years to grow to 33,000.
This year, we’ll be around 40,000.
Wayne Larden:
It was a long, slow burn.
We spent years building the foundation, delivering a great event, building the brand, and earning the right to even apply as a candidate race.
Wayne Larden:
In 2004, before I took over, I was asked to develop a strategy to lift the event.
When I looked at it, I said to myself:
“This event will be great one day. It just needs love, attention, and focus.”
Wayne Larden:
I believed that from day one.
I knew this event would be amazing.
It just took about 15 years longer than I thought it would.
Phil Dumontet:
That persistence is inspiring.
From a race at risk of losing its license to the newest Abbott World Marathon Major — that’s an incredible story.
Phil Dumontet:
One thing I want to double click on is your relationship with government and tourism boards. We’re seeing cities cancel marathons, like Brussels, and it’s challenging to watch. Beyond economic impact reports and participation numbers, what is our real job as stewards of these events? What can race directors do to earn long-term trust from their city partners and stakeholders?
Wayne Larden:
Consistent delivery is one thing. But for me, the most important thing has always been building relationships. One of the things I’m probably best at is listening to people and understanding another person’s perspective — whether that’s government, landowners, or partners — and then trying to come up with solutions that work for both sides.
Trying to muscle your way into anything usually creates pushback. Listening is a really important skill in event management, because there are roadblocks everywhere if you don’t get that right.
From the beginning, we focused on listening, being flexible, and building partnerships. Over time, you earn a reputation as an honest organisation that delivers what it says it will deliver. When you do that consistently, you build trust inside government.
It takes time to nurture that.
The great thing now is that governments better understand the value of marathons — not just economic impact, but health, community connection, and wellbeing. It’s an advantageous time to capitalise on the power of running events.
But in my opinion, it still comes down to your ability to nurture relationships and have a constructive dialogue to get where you want to go.
Phil Dumontet:
That’s a great way to frame it — collaboration, listening, and creating a community event that benefits everyone.
Phil Dumontet:
If you had to step back and design the TCS Sydney Marathon again from scratch today, after 20-plus years of learnings, what would you do differently, and what would you absolutely refuse to change?
Wayne Larden:
ou make mistakes in events all the time. Most of the time people don’t even realise mistakes have been made, but as a professional event organiser, you see them and you notice them and you improve yourself. We make mistakes, but it’s recognising them, fixing them, and making sure they don’t happen again.
To be honest, I think we’ve done things in the right order at the right time and built it at the right pace to build the reputation we now have. I probably wouldn’t change much. That’s not arrogance — it’s just that the mistakes we made, the learning we had, and how we adapted over the years gave us the experience we now have.
We’re on the right track with how we want to grow the event and how we want to deliver better experiences. I don’t think I’d change anything, not because we were perfect, but because the process itself is what allowed us to reach this point.
What we’ve built now is essentially the Olympic finals of marathon event delivery — the Abbott World Marathon Majors. It doesn’t get any bigger or more prestigious than this.
For me personally, as a former elite athlete and a competitive person, taking this event from a small, struggling race to the pinnacle of the sport is incredibly satisfying. And for our Point3 team, to now be part of the most prestigious marathon series in the world, that’s something we’re very proud of.
Phil Dumontet:
It really is the pinnacle. You’ve taken it all the way to the top.
Phil Dumontet:
I’d love to talk about the spectator side of the sport and how technology and elite athletes can play into that. You mentioned earlier that when you brought Kipchoge and Hassan to Sydney, spectator numbers increased substantially. I look at other sports like Formula One, which has done an incredible job turning itself into a spectator product, not just a participant one. Do you believe the future of marathons must become more watchable, and if so, what would need to change?
Wayne Larden:
I think educating the Sydney community about their role in the marathon is really important. Helping people understand that they’re not just observers — they’re part of the event experience. They’re part of the Sydney Marathon.
In Australia, that’s relatively new. Getting people to understand their role on the sidelines is a big part of building atmosphere and engagement.
In terms of broader watchability, I think a big challenge for our sport is that the general public doesn’t yet know the faces of running the way they know the faces of other sports. People know the best rugby players, the best Formula One drivers, because those sports get constant media exposure. Marathon running doesn’t have that yet.
When people start to recognise the athletes, understand their stories, and follow their rivalries, that creates connection. That’s when watching becomes more interesting.
We’re a long way from being like Formula One or the NFL, and that’s probably unrealistic, but we can move toward that.
Technology can help. We invest heavily in live sites, big screens, and showing the race around the course so people don’t just go home after the elites pass. They can follow the race, watch the rest of the field, enjoy the characters, the costumes, and the whole experience.
Telemetry, tracking, and broadcast data will also help over time, although it’s tricky with elite athletes because devices can add discomfort or weight. But that’s changing.
I think over time, as people get to know the athletes and the narratives, broadcast audiences will grow. But we still have work to do to get there.
Phil Dumontet:
That connection to the athletes is what makes any sport compelling.
Phil Dumontet:
This is your hot take, Wayne. What’s a belief you hold about the running world that most people in the industry don’t know yet or haven’t fully accepted?
Wayne Larden:
I think the running community is one of the most supportive and inclusive communities in the world. People know this to a degree, but I don’t think everyone fully appreciates how special it is.
The running community genuinely wants other people to experience running the way they have. They want to share it.
It’s one of the most beautiful communities you’ll ever be part of — inclusive, encouraging, supportive.
That’s one of the defining attributes of running.
Phil Dumontet:
When you love something, you want to share it with others. That’s what makes it special.
Phil Dumontet:
If we stood on the TCS Sydney Marathon start line in 2105, one hundred years from now, what would surprise us the most, and what do you think would remain baked into the event forever?
Wayne Larden:
The core elements won’t change. The beauty of Sydney will never change. In my opinion, it’s the most stunning city in the world. The people will still be some of the friendliest people in the world.
What you’ll probably see is a bigger field and longer finishing times. You’ll see finish lines closing well into the night to cope with demand.
You’ll see spectator numbers like London and New York — loud, fun, crowded, experiential. Aussies like to party, and when the public really embraces their role in the marathon, the atmosphere will be incredible.
I hope that in 100 years it will be recognised as the most fun Abbott World Marathon Major in the world.
Phil Dumontet:
We’ll wrap up with Phil’s Fast Five — simple, one-sentence answers, first thing that comes to mind. First question: one moment that reminds you this is why running matters.
Wayne Larden:
The last runner over the finish line. Not just the very last runner, but that final group of runners coming through. The joy on their faces, all shapes and sizes, what they achieve — that should inspire anyone and everyone.
Phil Dumontet:
That’s a great answer. The final finishers are often the most inspiring. Second question: one thing race directors need to stop doing.
Wayne Larden:
Never stop innovating and trying to improve. Just because you’re the best now doesn’t mean you’ll be the best next week. You can never rest on your laurels.
Phil Dumontet:
One thing they need to start doing.
Wayne Larden:
Always look to improve and be better. I send a lot of my team to other races throughout the year to learn.
Phil Dumontet:
One city that gets running right besides Sydney, and why.
Wayne Larden:
London and New York. They’re very similar to us — experiential marathons in great cities, and they do it incredibly well.
Phil Dumontet:
Finish this sentence. The future of running is…
Wayne Larden:
Connected communities, with people from all backgrounds running hand in hand, supporting each other, benefiting from the transformative power of running, and being happy.
Phil Dumontet:
Beautifully said. Wayne, thank you so much. This has been an incredible conversation. I’m really grateful for your time and for sharing your perspective and vision. Our listeners will learn a lot from this. Thank you for what you and your team have done to build the TCS Sydney Marathon into what it is today.
Wayne Larden:
Thanks for having me on, Phil. It’s been a pleasure. I’ve really enjoyed it.
Phil Dumontet:
Before we go, quick question. We’ve done Chicago, New York, Boston, and now Sydney. We’ve got Berlin, London, and Tokyo coming up. Where should we take this podcast next?
Wayne Larden:
Those are three great races and very different personalities. You’ll get a different perspective from each. After that, I’d say Cape Town. They’re a new candidate race, and I expect they’ll pass soon. Clark and his team are doing great work. Africa’s first Major would be a great story.
Phil Dumontet:
That would be incredible. I appreciate that, Wayne. Thank you again.
Wayne Larden:
Thank you very much.
