Jan. 28th, 2026
I recently sat down with Scott DeRue, CEO of IRONMAN, for an episode of The Future of Running. You can listen to the full conversation here.
Scott leads one of the most iconic endurance brands in the world – a company that didn’t just scale participation, but built something far rarer: fandom.
What stood out to me most wasn’t IRONMAN’s size.
It was how intentionally Scott thinks about experience, community, and emotional connection – not just on race day, but year-round.
Here are the 10 lessons that stuck with me most from our conversation.
1. Growth Only Happens Outside the Comfort Zone
Scott was clear: meaningful growth requires discomfort.
New formats. New markets. New risks.
Not reckless expansion – designed learning.
Takeaway:
If your race hasn’t stretched you recently, it’s probably not growing.
2. Leaders Must Be “In the Product”
Scott believes the best decisions come from lived experience.
He emphasized doing the check-in, walking the course, talking to volunteers, and seeing the event through the athlete’s eyes.
Takeaway:
You can’t fix friction you don’t personally feel.
3. Brands Are Built in Micro-Moments
From registration emails to post-race food, Scott stressed that every touchpoint matters.
There is no “small” moment in an endurance event.
Takeaway:
Maniacal attention to detail isn’t perfectionism – it's a retention strategy.
4. Community Owns the Brand
One of Scott’s most powerful lines:
“The brand is not mine. It’s theirs.”
IRONMAN’s strongest asset isn’t its logo – it’s the sense of ownership athletes feel.
Takeaway:
When people feel ownership, loyalty becomes automatic.
5. Scale Without Love Creates Churn
IRONMAN’s goal isn’t just to be the largest – it’s to be the most loved.
Scott framed “most loved” as an operating principle, not a marketing line.
Takeaway:
Growth without emotional connection erodes trust.
6. Identity Is the Product
People don’t sign up for an IRONMAN just to race.
They sign up to become an IRONMAN athlete.
That identity lasts long after the finish line.
Takeaway:
You’re not selling a race – you’re selling who someone becomes.
7. Rituals Create Belonging
From finish-line moments to repeatable race-day traditions, IRONMAN invests heavily in ritual.
Ritual turns participation into belonging.
Takeaway:
Belonging is engineered. It doesn’t happen by accident.
8. Experience Is a Year-Round Responsibility
Scott talked about IRONMAN as a 12-month relationship, not a one-day event.
Training. Content. Community. Post-race storytelling.
Takeaway:
The race is the anchor - the journey is the product.
9. The Best Brands Turn Participants into Advocates
IRONMAN athletes don’t just return.
They recruit.
They mentor.
They bring friends.
Takeaway:
When community is strong, marketing becomes optional.
10. “Most Loved” Is a Daily Decision
This may have been the most important lesson.
Being most loved isn’t a campaign.
It’s the sum of thousands of athlete-first decisions made every year.
Takeaway:
Love compounds – and it shows up in retention.
Final Thought
What Scott reinforced for me is something I’m seeing across the best endurance brands in the world:
Scale is easy to chase.
Love is harder to earn.
But love is what lasts.
IRONMAN didn’t just build a race series.
They built an identity people are proud to carry for life.
The Future of Running on Head Start is a new mini-series presented by Laurel Innovations, exploring where our sport is heading. Listen to my full interview with Scott here. I have included a full transcript of our conversation, edited for readability, below.
The Future of Running
Episode: Scott DeRue, CEO of The IRONMAN Group
Presented by Laurel Timing on Head Start
Welcome to The Future of Running, where we explore the ideas, people, and breakthroughs redefining endurance sport.
Today’s guest is truly one of one. He’s the only person on earth who has summited Everest, conquered all seven summits, and now leads one of the most iconic names in endurance sport: The IRONMAN Group - Scott DeRue.
Scott’s journey is anything but ordinary. From the mountaintops of the Himalayas to the boardrooms of Wall Street, from serving as dean of one of the world’s top business schools to becoming President of Equinox - and now CEO of The IRONMAN Group - Scott has built a career on the edge of transformation.
He’s lived the very ethos of IRONMAN: anything is possible.
So whether you’re an athlete, entrepreneur, coach, or executive building the future of the sport, this episode is all about redefining your own finish line - and finding the courage to cross it.
So let’s dive in.
Phil: Scott DeRue, welcome to The Future of Running.
Scott DeRue: Thanks, Phil. Super excited to join you, and it’s gonna be a fun conversation. Appreciate it.
Phil: Well, like I mentioned in the intro - you’ve summited Everest, you’ve led one of the world’s top business schools, and now you lead IRONMAN. How has that journey shaped your approach to leadership and growth?
Scott: A number of ways. You know, first and foremost, just the desire to get outside of your comfort zone - whether you’re on a mountain or whether you’re doing triathlons and running events. You want to get outside your comfort zone because that’s where you learn the most.
Through all of these different experiences, you learn some pretty universal truths around leadership and building organizations. One is the importance of a bold vision - to inspire not only your team, but also your community. Another is the importance of having a great team around you - diverse, complementary skill sets, backgrounds, experiences. And then the importance of a winning culture rooted in a shared sense of values, a deep commitment to each other.
From a leadership and growth perspective, when you have a bold vision that everybody buys into, when you have a team with diverse, complementary skill sets and backgrounds, and you really come together in a collaborative way and build this winning culture - where you’ve got a deep commitment to each other, a deep commitment to the ideals, a deep commitment to achieving bold ambition - there’s really no limits to what you can accomplish.
And I think that’s true whether you’re a team on the side of a mountain, a team here at IRONMAN, or any organization like your own or others. Those are some fundamental universal truths that - across all these different adventures in life - you get reminded of.
Phil: Love that, Scott. And I appreciate you diving into those leadership lessons.
Something I really admire about you is that you’re such an active and authentic CEO. You participate in your own events - and I really take that approach too. I think you learn so much from the participant experience and seeing it firsthand. There’s just no substitute for experiencing your own races like your athletes do.
So tell me a little bit more about your approach to that - and what you’ve learned from doing that.
Scott: Yeah, I mean, just this weekend we were at Jones Beach in New York - the 70.3 there.
Phil: Mm-hmm.
Scott: And that was my first time having the privilege of joining that event. Like many of our events, the best way to see and experience the event is to participate in it.
I may not always do the entire event, but like at Jones Beach, I jumped in and ran the run portion of the triathlon. It’s the best way - maybe the only way - to truly experience that moment through the athlete’s eyes. You learn so much about what you could do better, what’s going really well.
And you actually get to interact with the athletes, right? On course, they don’t necessarily know who I am 99% of the time. But you get to interact with them at aid stations, you get to interact with the volunteers, you get to understand how their day is going as well.
Every time I do it - every race that I come home from - there’s always a number of lessons and insights you gain by being in the moment with the customer, if you will.
Phil: Exactly - that firsthand experience.
Do you have a proclivity to the running aspect of the triathlon, or was that just the way you were feeling this past weekend?
Scott: I have a proclivity to the running simply because I often show up with no plan to actually participate. But I always have running shoes, so it’s the easiest to jump into. And from having a bit of a running background, it’s a little easier for me - with not a lot of training - to jump into that portion versus, say, the swim, as an example.
And on the bike, I at least need a bike prepared - have the bike with you.
Phil: Yeah.
Scott: But usually our team tells me all the time that they can take care of the bike. But then if I’m gonna do the bike and the run, I might as well do the whole thing.
Phil: Right.
Scott: So it’s an adventure. It’s always fun - we have a good time with it.
And I think it’s also important for our team. They want to know that I care - not only about them as a team, but also what we’re doing and delivering as an experience. Our team enjoys seeing me out there, participating, enjoying it. They always get the email or the phone call afterward: “Hey, here’s what I saw that was really great - here are a few things we could do better.” And I think they appreciate that as well. But it’s always fun.
Phil: Absolutely. That’s awesome.
One of the themes of this podcast is bringing together best practices and where our sport is going. I love looking outside of endurance events for lessons we can bring into our world.
I mentioned in the intro your leadership at Equinox - and I was a member there for many years. Two very different environments. What lessons from Equinox are helping you lead today at IRONMAN?
Scott: One of the most important things I took away from my time at Equinox was this attention to detail - almost maniacal - about every aspect of the member’s journey. The experience. And it’s not only in the club, but outside the club as well - in your interaction with the brand and the community.
But this real attention to detail about every aspect of the experience - like at a club, when you walk in, what happens? That front desk experience when you check in can define your two hours in the club. What happens in the locker room, what happens on the floor - if something is out of place, if it’s not perfectly clean - all these detailed touchpoints will define your experience.
The same is true for the 225 events we’ll put on around the world this year. Every aspect of that experience - check-in and registration and picking up your bib, all the way to what that aid station looks like and that experience of going through the aid station, to what does the carpet look like at the finish line - what is that magical hero moment on course? What is the post-race food and that experience going to look like?
Every aspect of that experience can define your overall impression of the brand - whether you want to keep in the sport, whether you’re inspired, whether you connect with the community.
So there’s a lot of parallels to what I learned at Equinox - and what that experience really taught me - that we certainly take to heart at The IRONMAN Group as well.
Phil: I love that - maniacal attention to detail. Clearly you’ve brought that over.
When you think about leadership style - you shared bold vision, values, winning culture - what’s one leadership belief you’ve learned since becoming CEO of IRONMAN?
Welcome to The Future of Running, where we explore the ideas, people, and breakthroughs redefining endurance sport.
Today’s guest is truly one of one. He’s the only person on earth who has summited Everest, conquered all seven summits, and now leads one of the most iconic names in endurance sport: The IRONMAN Group - Scott DeRue.
Scott’s journey is anything but ordinary. From the mountaintops of the Himalayas to the boardrooms of Wall Street, from serving as dean of one of the world’s top business schools to becoming President of Equinox - and now CEO of The IRONMAN Group - Scott has built a career on the edge of transformation.
He’s lived the very ethos of IRONMAN: anything is possible.
So whether you’re an athlete, entrepreneur, coach, or executive building the future of the sport, this episode is all about redefining your own finish line - and finding the courage to cross it.
So let’s dive in.
Scott DeRue, welcome to The Future of Running.
Scott DeRue: Thanks, Phil. Super excited to join you, and it’s gonna be a fun conversation. Appreciate it.
Phil: Well, like I mentioned in the intro - you’ve summited Everest, you’ve led one of the world’s top business schools, and now you lead IRONMAN. How has that journey shaped your approach to leadership and growth?
Scott: A number of ways. You know, first and foremost, just the desire to get outside of your comfort zone - whether you’re on a mountain or whether you’re doing triathlons and running events. You want to get outside your comfort zone because that’s where you learn the most.
Through all of these different experiences, you learn some pretty universal truths around leadership and building organizations. One is the importance of a bold vision - to inspire not only your team, but also your community. Another is the importance of having a great team around you - diverse, complementary skill sets, backgrounds, experiences. And then the importance of a winning culture rooted in a shared sense of values, a deep commitment to each other.
From a leadership and growth perspective, when you have a bold vision that everybody buys into, when you have a team with diverse, complementary skill sets and backgrounds, and you really come together in a collaborative way and build this winning culture - where you’ve got a deep commitment to each other, a deep commitment to the ideals, a deep commitment to achieving bold ambition - there’s really no limits to what you can accomplish.
And I think that’s true whether you’re a team on the side of a mountain, a team here at IRONMAN, or any organization like your own or others. Those are some fundamental universal truths that - across all these different adventures in life - you get reminded of.
Phil: Love that, Scott. And I appreciate you diving into those leadership lessons.
Something I really admire about you is that you’re such an active and authentic CEO. You participate in your own events - and I really take that approach too. I think you learn so much from the participant experience and seeing it firsthand. There’s just no substitute for experiencing your own races like your athletes do.
So tell me a little bit more about your approach to that - and what you’ve learned from doing that.
Scott: Yeah, I mean, just this weekend we were at Jones Beach in New York - the 70.3 there.
Phil: Mm-hmm.
Scott: And that was my first time having the privilege of joining that event. Like many of our events, the best way to see and experience the event is to participate in it.
I may not always do the entire event, but like at Jones Beach, I jumped in and ran the run portion of the triathlon. It’s the best way - maybe the only way - to truly experience that moment through the athlete’s eyes. You learn so much about what you could do better, what’s going really well.
And you actually get to interact with the athletes, right? On course, they don’t necessarily know who I am 99% of the time. But you get to interact with them at aid stations, you get to interact with the volunteers, you get to understand how their day is going as well.
Every time I do it - every race that I come home from - there’s always a number of lessons and insights you gain by being in the moment with the customer, if you will.
Phil: Exactly - that firsthand experience.
Do you have a proclivity to the running aspect of the triathlon, or was that just the way you were feeling this past weekend?
Scott: I have a proclivity to the running simply because I often show up with no plan to actually participate. But I always have running shoes, so it’s the easiest to jump into. And from having a bit of a running background, it’s a little easier for me - with not a lot of training - to jump into that portion versus, say, the swim, as an example.
And on the bike, I at least need a bike prepared - have the bike with you.
Phil: Yeah.
Scott: But usually our team tells me all the time that they can take care of the bike. But then if I’m gonna do the bike and the run, I might as well do the whole thing.
Phil: Right.
Scott: So it’s an adventure. It’s always fun - we have a good time with it.
And I think it’s also important for our team. They want to know that I care - not only about them as a team, but also what we’re doing and delivering as an experience. Our team enjoys seeing me out there, participating, enjoying it. They always get the email or the phone call afterward: “Hey, here’s what I saw that was really great - here are a few things we could do better.” And I think they appreciate that as well. But it’s always fun.
Phil: Absolutely. That’s awesome.
One of the themes of this podcast is bringing together best practices and where our sport is going. I love looking outside of endurance events for lessons we can bring into our world.
I mentioned in the intro your leadership at Equinox - and I was a member there for many years. Two very different environments. What lessons from Equinox are helping you lead today at IRONMAN?
Scott: One of the most important things I took away from my time at Equinox was this attention to detail - almost maniacal - about every aspect of the member’s journey. The experience. And it’s not only in the club, but outside the club as well - in your interaction with the brand and the community.
But this real attention to detail about every aspect of the experience - like at a club, when you walk in, what happens? That front desk experience when you check in can define your two hours in the club. What happens in the locker room, what happens on the floor - if something is out of place, if it’s not perfectly clean - all these detailed touchpoints will define your experience.
The same is true for the 225 events we’ll put on around the world this year. Every aspect of that experience - check-in and registration and picking up your bib, all the way to what that aid station looks like and that experience of going through the aid station, to what does the carpet look like at the finish line - what is that magical hero moment on course? What is the post-race food and that experience going to look like?
Every aspect of that experience can define your overall impression of the brand - whether you want to keep in the sport, whether you’re inspired, whether you connect with the community.
So there’s a lot of parallels to what I learned at Equinox - and what that experience really taught me - that we certainly take to heart at The IRONMAN Group as well.
Phil: I love that - maniacal attention to detail. Clearly you’ve brought that over.
When you think about leadership style - you shared bold vision, values, winning culture - what’s one leadership belief you’ve learned since becoming CEO of IRONMAN?
Scott: The power of community to really define your brand.
Let me unpack what I mean by that. This was true at Equinox as well. At Equinox I used to say all the time: it’s not our club, it’s the members’ club. They felt this psychological ownership over the clubs.
The same is true at The IRONMAN Group - especially for IRONMAN and the sport of triathlon, UTMB and the sport of trail running. There’s this sense of community and emotional connection that people have with the brand.
From a leadership perspective, beginning to understand how you empower that community and create this sense of connection - I mean, IRONMAN’s probably the most tattooed brand in the world, right? Think about the level of identity and emotional connection someone has with the brand to compel them to tattoo it to their body.
So in many ways, the brand is not mine - it’s theirs. It’s not my team’s - it’s our community’s brand, and it’s their connection to it.
From a leadership perspective, we often talk about how we can elevate our brand and build our brands and build our communities. And to me - and one of the things our team has really embraced - is these things are so interrelated. The more you create connection and emotional connection within the community, that is your brand.
Your community is the brand. They define it.
Phil: Beautifully said. I love that shared sense of ownership.
Have you seen that change over time since your time with IRONMAN?
Scott: Well, I can’t speak to - I don’t have firsthand knowledge necessarily of prior to me joining. But what I have seen in the last year and a half-plus, coming directly from our community, is a growing belief that IRONMAN is putting our community first.
We’re not entirely where we need to be - it’s a journey. But the ideals and the aspiration to put our community, to put our athlete first in everything we do - woven through every decision we make - I believe is at the heart of where the IRONMAN brand is today, and even more importantly, where it will be in the future.
I believe we’re on a journey with our community - in terms of their belief and their connection with the brand in that spirit.
And I’ve said to many people over the course of the last year and a half: the only way to create that type of relationship and that type of connection with your athlete, with your customer, is to do it - is to live it.
So that’s why we’re on a journey. We’re not entirely where I want us to be in that regard, but we’re on that journey. Every day we’re making progress. We’re not perfect - never claimed to be - but we aspire to be, by putting our athlete first.
And I hope our community - and certainly the feedback we’re getting - resonates with that ideal.
Phil: Thank you for that. Great segue into challenges.
Endurance events - much like business - have moments that test all of us. The climbs feel endless. Obstacles can feel insurmountable. Doubt inevitably creeps in.
Can you name a moment - in business or in the mountains - when you weren’t sure you’d make it, and what got you through?
Scott: I’ve got many of those - whether we’re on the mountains, or running across deserts, or pretty much every day in business in some form or another.
But the universal truth of what gets you through - no matter the context or environment - is the people around you.
Whether it’s a running event or an IRONMAN - maybe it’s that aid station volunteer, or the people on course cheering you along, or your support crew. But it’s not just race day. It’s training. Some days you’re inspired to get up and train, some days you’re not. But you have people around you that motivate you.
The same thing’s true in business - highs and lows. During those darker moments, it’s your team. It’s the people around you that come together and support each other and problem-solve and figure out the path forward.
I’ve certainly had too many experiences to count. But the universal truth is: it’s always the people around you that gets you through those darkest moments.
Phil: 100%.
Looking to the future - when we think about the brand continuing to develop, putting the athlete first, letting the community define the brand - if we fast forward 10 years, where do you see the IRONMAN brand?
Scott: Our brand reflects a belief, and that belief is: anything is possible.
This isn’t simply about a sport - in this case for IRONMAN triathlon - it’s about people. No matter your walk of life, no matter what situation you’re in, it’s embracing this belief that anything is possible.
If I look ahead a decade forward: we’re not only the largest, but we’re the most loved.
We’ll do 225 events in 55 countries - or whatever it will be this year. And that makes us the largest operator of participation sports in the world. But our aspiration is not simply to be the largest - our aspiration is to be the most loved.
That’s why it comes back to this athlete-first approach - to building community, building a sense of shared identity, and the brands around it.
So it’s not only the largest, it’s the most loved. It’s also not simply an event - it’s a lifestyle. We’re not only focused on race day, we’re focused on every day.
There’s nothing like sport - maybe music - but there’s nothing like sport that brings people together, gives people a sense of purpose, brings joy to people’s lives.
This isn’t simply about showing up at an event and doing an event. This is about a lifestyle grounded in this belief that anything is possible - something that transcends a sport, in this case triathlon.
So 10 years from now, we’re among the most loved brands in the world. We’re a lifestyle, not just an event. And we are a global community - our aspiration is a global community of over a billion people through our events, our content, our community, our media. A global community built on this ideal - unlocking one’s potential and embracing this belief that anything is possible.
When I sit back and dream for a moment - and when our team sits back and dreams - we get really excited about what that future can hold. Because at the end of the day, we’re in the business of making people’s dreams come true and inspiring people to believe that anything is possible.
And yes, our events - our sports - are the primary mechanism and way in which we do that. But at the end of the day, it’s about that belief in our community.
We’re excited about where we’re at, but also what that future holds.
Phil: I’m so passionate about this concept: doing something challenging - whether it’s completing an IRONMAN or a marathon - how the confidence from doing that spills over into all aspects of life. And you said it best: anything is possible. Do you find that as well?
Scott: Absolutely, Phil. I genuinely believe endurance sports - broadly defined - changes people’s lives for the better.
I can speak for myself, and I’m sure you can as well, let alone everyone else who participates.
And it’s not only about living a healthier life - health, fitness. If you look across my entire career, I basically had three careers: education, health and fitness, and endurance sports. The common through line across all three is a desire to help people maximize their potential in life. The vehicle changes.
Education changes people’s lives. Health and fitness changes people’s lives. Endurance sports changes people’s lives.
Not only because you’re healthier and you’ve got that health and fitness angle, but because you come to appreciate and realize that you are capable of more than you thought. It was just a mental hurdle or roadblock holding you back - and you blow past that.
As soon as you blow past that belief, you’ve reached a higher level of ascension in your own belief structures. Now you know that you’re stronger than you thought you were yesterday. And that belief transcends everything in your life.
That’s the spirit of IRONMAN. And to me, that’s the power of endurance sports.
Phil: Beautifully said. And then you can’t help but ask yourself - once you complete the IRONMAN or the marathon - what other limiting beliefs do I have, because I just accomplished this? What else can I do? It’s one of the most inspiring thoughts and things you can do.
Scott: You are spot on.
You stand at the finish line of these incredible challenges people take on - an IRONMAN, for example. You’ve got some incredible athletes who finish in eight hours. Their athletic achievement is extraordinary.
But the spirit of IRONMAN happens at midnight - when people are finishing at 17 hours.
Because the person who finished in eight or nine hours, they know they can finish. What they’re doing is challenging themselves to get better, faster every day. The discipline it takes to continue pushing yourself, honing, perfecting the craft - it’s incredible.
The person finishing in 16 or 17 hours - when they started that day, they didn’t know if they would finish that day.
Both examples - the eight-hour person and the 17-hour person - learned they are stronger than they could have imagined the day prior. That 17-hour person may have never done anything like that in their life, and the spirit of IRONMAN is that person who didn’t know if it was possible - and now through their own performance, they believe anything is possible.
And then that transcends the idea of sport altogether.
Phil: Beautifully said.
I want to double click on something you said: looking ahead to the next decade - becoming the largest and also the most loved. Becoming the largest is about the numbers. Becoming the most loved is about the meaning. Plenty of companies become the largest, but few become the most loved. What separates the two?
Scott: In our case - we’re already the largest in our space. Of course we want to grow and maintain our position in the market. But the way you do that is emotional connection and community - brand love.
This concept of being among the most loved brands in the world - that’s about creating meaning. It’s about creating connection and building a shared sense of identity.
So all of the investments we’re making - not only in the events and the experiences on race day and race weekend, but throughout the entire journey of the athlete - are about how do we create a deeper connection and relationship with our athletes, the local communities within which we operate, the fans, the family, the friends - building this shared sense of identity and connection through all the stakeholders within the ecosystem.
If we put the love for IRONMAN or the love for UTMB at the center of everything we do, and we foster that love in every touchpoint, and we give our community platforms to connect with each other - then we’re building brand love.
And that’s what enables us over the long term to continue to be the largest. It becomes this positive flywheel. By growing The IRONMAN Group and our collection of sports and brands and experiences and events around the world, we can grow that community.
And as you know, the investments we make in content and media - you don’t reach a billion people simply by events. You reach a billion people by events plus content and media and social platforms that create a global community.
A global community built around this shared identity and this belief that anything is possible. That - to me - is what “not only the largest, but the most loved” means.
Phil: One thought experiment we like to do on this show - think freely about what could be. New formats - within IRONMAN or elsewhere.
If IRONMAN could test one totally unconventional race format - free from any constraints - what would it be and why?
Scott: Free from any constraints?
Phil: Yeah. We’re just gonna have fun with this, Scott.
So when I was at Equinox, I had this crazy idea that we should build the gym in the International Space Station.
Scott: I love this already.
Phil: I thought it’d be a super cool brand.
Scott: I don’t know if there’s a triathlon happening on the moon. I’m not sure that’s in the future.
But the first thought that came to mind was - and this would probably be for a very unique audience - a triathlon around the world.
Did you see the gentleman the other day who swam around Iceland?
Phil: Yes. Yes, I did.
Scott: I think it was like 115 days of swimming every day around Iceland for over a thousand miles. Unreal.
I was reading that story and it was so inspiring. The first thought I had was: huh, I wonder what a triathlon would look like - something similar. Where you swim a thousand miles, you bike across - from Europe to Japan - could you cover the globe?
Maybe you’d have to do it in a relay format. I started to play with it - maybe you have to have a relay.
But yeah - when you say no constraints, meaning there might be five people in the world that would take that on - that’s where my mind goes.
And then we come back to earth a bit. But I genuinely believe that as endurance sports becomes more and more mainstream, we’re going to see new formats.
It used to be running 50K was crazy. Now every trail event - most of UTMB - has at least a 50K, if not a 100K. People are getting more accustomed to: if I can do a marathon, I can do a 50K. If I can do a 50K, I can do a 100K.
People are enamored - across human history - with where’s the next frontier? What’s the next boundary of exploration of what is possible?
It’s going to be really interesting to see how endurance sports evolves over time. You’ll see new formats, and I think the distances and what is possible for your average human - what they deem as possible as the next challenge - will keep getting what you and I would consider harder.
Phil: We are right on. The standards keep rising. The tests keep getting harder. Everyone keeps pushing the boundaries.
What do you think is driving that?
Scott: Human nature. We always want to find that boundary and push on it a bit. And in many ways that’s what makes humanity so special.
I also think advances in technology, advances in nutrition - in particular - are having a big impact on not only what people can do on race day, but training. Advances in the science of training, the science of nutrition, are teaching us what is possible with the human body.
As people do more, the mind learns we’re stronger than we thought. We keep pushing the boundaries. It builds on itself. And it’s a great testament to the power of the human spirit.
Phil: Thank you for that.
Well - we heard it here first: if there’s ever an IRONMAN World Global Triathlon, it’s very fitting that the CEO of a company built on “anything is possible” has an answer like that.
So thank you.
We’ll go a little further.
If I were standing at the start line of IRONMAN World Champs, Rock ‘n’ Roll Marathon, UTMB in 2035 - what do you think would surprise us the most?
Scott: Great question.
A few things come to mind. One is: we’re going to see over the next decade advances in technology that go well beyond the gear.
What some footwear and apparel companies are doing - there are fun controversies about super shoes. What companies are doing with weight - taking out weight from the shoe or vest.
If you look at the IRONMAN World Championship the other day - we had the Norwegians go 1, 2, 3 - and if you look at the technology in their tri suits around cooling, it’s incredible.
Technology is going to continue to evolve. Who knows where that will be 10 years from now.
So I think we’re going to see an intersection - and possibly tension - between technology and authenticity of the sport over the next decade. Some of that we will define and shape, but some of it the community will define.
I’m also really intrigued by the type of person who will be on the start line in 2035.
If you look at triathlon today, our fastest-growing segment is under the age of 30 - the sport is younger today than it’s ever been. If you look at trail running, growth is across every segment, but in particular young people.
So I’m intrigued by who will be on the start line because the demographics and composition of endurance sports - the composition of who’s participating - is fundamentally changing.
I think the start line 10 years from now is going to look quite different than today. And I think that’s good for the health of the sport and the global ecosystem and community.
So: authenticity and technology, and big trends in who is participating - together - will shape what the start line looks like in 10 years.
Phil: A lot to unpack there - and really well said.
The last episode of The Future of Running was with Bill Quinn, a futurist at TCS. We talked about how tech can expand participation and the composition of who shows up on the start line - and drive inclusivity.
We talked about exo-assist divisions with robotic support for athletes with impairments. Drones delivering medical supplies. Waste sorting robots. AR layers to make the spectator experience more engaging.
And it goes back to what you said: at the end of the day, you can have all these amazing technologies - who knows where it’ll be in 10 years - but it is still about that human celebration of crossing that finish line.
Despite all of that amazing tech that makes it more interesting, exciting, inclusive, available - it’s still your body putting in that work. Having to believe anything is possible. Breaking through those barriers.
It’s going to be interesting to see that combination - but it’s still that visceral physical work.
Scott: Exactly correct.
The advancements in technology that have made sport - and endurance sports - more accessible have been incredible.
We do a lot of work with the Challenged Athletes Foundation. The work they’ve done partnering with technologists - whether it’s an exoskeleton assisting, or advancements in prosthetics, advancements in bike technology - enabling people who otherwise could not participate to get into sport, and in particular endurance sports.
This is true in triathlon and in trail running. Trail running is technical terrain. And what that looks like.
We had incredible adaptive athletes at UTMB a few weeks ago in Chamonix, France. To see the advances in technology there - breaking down barriers - enabling people to participate and bring to life this belief that anything is possible - is incredibly inspiring.
That’s very different than an able-bodied person putting on an exoskeleton and climbing a mountain just because they now can.
But again - who am I to define that experience for that person?
Phil: Of course.
The IRONMAN Group has so many exciting business lines and series. I want to zoom into one question on each - UTMB, Rock ‘n’ Roll, and IRONMAN.
Starting with UTMB - going back to authenticity: how do you continue to scale it while preserving authenticity?
Scott: It’s an important question, and the answer is quite simple: be humble and put the athlete at the center of everything we do.
When we started on the UTMB journey, we didn’t always get that exactly right. But our team did a nice job listening, staying humble, and really connecting with the trail running community around the world to understand their desires for UTMB, and for trail running.
Work with - not against - the community around: how do we grow the sport of trail running?
Trail running changes people’s lives. It’s incredible. Not only from a health and fitness perspective, not only what we talked about earlier in terms of helping people realize they can accomplish incredible things.
Trail running also connects people with our environment. It gets people closer to nature in ways that have positive consequences for that person - and for us as a society. The closer we are to nature and the environment we have the privilege of living in - that’s incredibly important for the future of humanity.
Trail running is a unique platform to connect people with nature.
As we’ve grown and scaled UTMB, we’ve learned the importance of doing so with the community as the heartbeat and soul of that growth. A lot of that is listening, staying humble, and when we don’t get it right, admitting we haven’t gotten it right - and committing to continue to evolve and work with our community.
I’m proud of the journey we’ve been on, and really excited about where we are.
Phil: Thank you.
Switching over to the Rock ‘n’ Roll community - epic, fun events at the intersection of music and endurance and festivals. How do you view Rock ‘n’ Roll continuing to evolve - its cultural significance over time?
Scott: To me, music and sport go together like peanut butter and jelly. That’s a very American reference - depending on where we are in the world, it might not be peanut butter and jelly, but you get my point.
Phil: Exactly. Salt and pepper if you’re elsewhere.
Scott: It could be Nutella - it could be whatever.
But to me, there are no two more powerful forces in the world of bringing people together than music and sport. It doesn’t matter your background or beliefs - when music and sport come together, you build community, belonging.
That’s the heart of Rock ‘n’ Roll. It’s music. It’s running. But at the center it’s about fun. Music and running are the vehicles through which you and I and 30,000 other people are coming together to have fun together.
Rock ‘n’ Roll is intended to be the world’s largest running party - music and sport coming together to create belonging and shared fun.
We have a race in Australia called City to Surf. This past year it had 90,000 people, if I’m not mistaken.
Phil: Is it the largest race in the world?
Scott: There have been larger races, but I have not validated - though I think it may currently be the largest. If it’s not the largest, it’s definitely top five active, to say the least.
But we don’t focus as much on how big it is - we focus on how much fun people are having. That’s the metric: the fun factor.
And that thing sells out in minutes - 90,000. It’s an incredible event.
People want to be part of something bigger than themselves. They want to be part of a magical experience.
With advances in technology and social platforms, now everybody has a story to tell.
Of all the things we could say about social media that aren’t good - one blessing is: everybody has a story to tell, and it allows people to tell that story.
Events like Rock ‘n’ Roll or City to Surf - it’s the intersection of sport, music, and fun. But I get inspired by the storytelling around the events that athletes engage in. And it’s not about performance - it’s about fun, pure joy of being together.
There are not many things in our world that bring people together like that - while still having the individuality and personalization of the experience at the same time.
Phil: Exactly. That shared collective experience - but you still have your own experience you can express.
You mentioned earlier the fastest-growing segment you’re seeing is Gen Z - under 30. Something we talk about: Gen Z finds meaning in moments.
How can IRONMAN feel as exciting, magnetic as a sneaker drop - or a Taylor Swift tour?
Scott: Taylor Swift’s a high bar.
Phil: I know, I know - I’m making it tough.
Scott: Well, Phil - I’ll give you this, and I say it with humility - but what’s to say we’re not already? Taylor Swift sells out a concert in seconds. We put IRONMAN Copenhagen on sale the other day and it sold out in two days.
We will sell out every event in Europe. We’ll sell out probably every event in Oceania and Asia. We’ll come pretty close in North America this year. And next year, even more so - with 225 events around the world, which I think is more tour stops than the Eras Tour - don’t quote me on that. We’ll fact-check it.
But in all seriousness - to me it’s about different communities.
What Taylor Swift has done - or sneaker companies - has built a community that connects on a very emotional level with what they do. Whether it’s a product like a sneaker or Taylor Swift - her music is extraordinary, but it’s also the experience. It’s being a Swiftie. It’s being part of that community.
That emotional bond and connection - people feel like they know her. There’s an authenticity she develops through music and writing and performance. That’s the power of her as a brand.
For endurance sports and organizers like us, there’s a lot we can learn from people like Taylor Swift and others. At the end of the day, this is about community - connection - emotional and social aspects.
I hope one day she can be like, “Hey, I wonder if we can be more like IRONMAN.”
Phil: Exactly. Hopefully some podcaster asks her that someday.
Scott: That would be my marker for success - if a podcaster asked Taylor Swift, “How could you be more like IRONMAN?”
Phil: That’s it. That’s it.
I want to be cognizant of time. This is the last question - short one. We end every podcast this way. Finish this statement:
The future of endurance sports is…
Scott: The future of endurance sports is the heart and soul of the endurance community.
Phil: Beautifully said.
Scott, thank you so much. We could go on for hours. I really appreciate your time - this was an incredible conversation. Thank you for coming on and joining us on The Future of Running.
Scott: Phil, entirely my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Phil: Thank you so much. Take care.
